A SUMMARY OF THE FOLLOWING STORY
This is a link to a quite remarkable certificate. It has been suggested by researcher Brian Snowdon that the Elizabeth Dalton who is a witness to this marriage, is the sister of the bride Harriet Dalton (though it is equally possible that Elizabeth Dalton was Walter Brind's mother, she had re-married after the death of William Brind). If Elizabeth is Harriet's sister, the bride was also the groom's niece since the Dalton girls were the daughters of Harriet Brind (sister of the groom Walter). Whilst this seems incredible, take a look at Harriet Dalton's father on the certificate, Charles Dalton (a builder). When Elizabeth Dalton married (John Joseph William Snowdon) she said her father was builder Charles Dalton. Walter and Harriet baptised their sons Charles John and Walter (on 29.7.1849 at St.Marys ,Haggerstone,Shoreditch) the same date and place as the eldest daughter of Elizabeth (Dalton) and her husband John Joseph William Snowdon. Apart from sharing the same father (Charles Dalton, builder) Elizabeth and Harriet Dalton also shared the same unusual profession, bookbinder. But the story becomes even more bizarre. Brian Snowdon believes that at the time Walter married his niece although he said his marital status was bachelor (not the more reasonable divorced or widower since he hd been married before) he was actually still married and had a daughter in Australia!
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From: Brian Snowdon
Subject: Doltons/Walter Brind
Date: 1 June 2012 19:26:00 GMT+01:00
To: Denice McCarten
Cc: david brind , Jonathan Brind
Reply-To: Brian Snowdon
Hi Denice,
As promised , just a few notes on the Doltons/Daltons and Walter Brind . As you know these are just a few odds 'n ends I've picked up along the way regarding the Doltons/Brinds and in particular a look at Walters marriage . (Having finished it , it is much longer than I intended it to be - sorry .)
The first theory that my 3 x g grandparents Charles Alerander DOLTON and Harriot Brinds' parents married after their first spouses had died , wasn't correct . The mother of Harriot,Walter, The Captain and other siblings - Elizabeth (nee Tomason) did marry George DOLTON in 1827 , but George wasn't the father of Charles . He also stated he was a bachelor on the marriage cert..Charles was baptised on 10.9.1797 in Kingston upon Thames - his parents were William and Hannah.
Charles did have a brother George bc1773 , but he would have been 22 years younger than Elizabeth .(Anythings possible I suppose) If Charles father William was the William that was baptised in Kingston upon Thames on 23.7.1770 , then Charles had a Grandad George(buried before 1827) but more interestingly an uncle George baptised in Kingston on 1.7.1765 . This is just a theory obviously ,but the age would have been correct .
One final note of interest on George and Elizabeths marriage . They married on 23.4.1827 at St.Lukes , Finsbury,Islington , but banns were read 5 years earlier on 21.7/28.7 and 4.8.1822 at St.Dunstans and AllSaints,Stepney,Middlesex . Why the delay , I wonder ?
The next idea that Charles sister married Harriot's brother doesn't appear correct .Charles did have a sister Harriet who was baptised on 11.11.1792 , but appears to have been buried 21.2.1794 . Charles also seems to have been the last of five siblings , and even if there was a second sister Harriet , she would have had to have been born over 20 years after Charles, to match the ages quoted for Walter's wife Harriet on census returns .
Then there is my theory that Walter Brind possibly married his niece . I was always surprised that Walter described himself as a bachelor on his marriage to Harriet , but he could as is stated in 'Brind Amplified' honestly believed her to be dead , and as David has suggested ,as their was no proof , it was easier to class himself as a bachelor .I don't know about Australia , but divorce laws as we know them didn't start here until 1857 . It was possible to divorce before then , but an Act of Parliament was necessary, so only available to a select few , I would suggest . David had told me that Anne could possibly have remarried in Australia , and now you have confirmed she did ,in 1853 (NOTE possibly 1851) to John Barrett . The second marriages were bigamous , knowingly or not ,but it is possible that the family never knew about Anne anyway .Again David makes the point that if Walter had married his niece , then the family would have known , and it seems very unlikely that they would have sanctioned it. Marriage as you know, to a niece, was like today ,never allowed .
Just though to bring some drama to my sad life , I will re-iterate the increasing clues that point to that possibility . I have taken a keen interest in Walters marriage for some unknown reason , and having given him the benefit of the doubt over knowingly entering a bigamous marriage , I should like to prove the allegation I have made about Walter untrue. How sad that Walter and the Captain both lost their first born in tragic circumstances. I wonder if Walter learnt about his daughters death .
Charles DOLTON and Harriot (nee Brind) had 6 daughters (that I know of ) Not in order : -
1) Mary Ann DOLTON b 27.9.1824 , baptised 17.12.1827 St.Leonards,Shoreditch,Mx. Charles & Harriot stated as parents , his occupation -BRICKLAYER , they lived at Holywell Lane, Shoreditch at time of baptism .Mary is not mentioned on the family census of 1841 or anywhere else . She could have left home at 16 or earlier , or more likely I still have to find her young death details .
As an aside John Snowdon b1827 who married Elizabeth Dalton (who I shall mention soon) never lived at Holywell Lane,Shoreditch , but his father John b1800 lived there in 1822 ,and his Grandfather was living there in 1814 . It is highly likely that the 2 families were there at the same time , and as Charles and John Sr. were close in age , maybe they were friends as well as neighbours, and that was how John Jr. met Elizabeth . John Sr. like his father and 2 brothers was a carpenter (unlike his descendants who became cabinet makers when Shoreditch was the furniture manufacturing/ and wholesaling centre of the Country .John Sr.'s brother Robert always classed himself as a house carpenter/joiner.) It is therefore possible that John Sr. and Charles even worked together .
2)Ellen DALTON. Ellen is on the 1841 family census (address-Goldsmiths Terrace,Shoreditch) b Middlesex aged 7 (b 1833/4)
3)Louisa DALTON birth registered Sept. Quarter 1837 Shoreditch,Mx.(2-161) Louisa is on the 1841 family census b Middlesex - aged 4 and the 1851 family census(living at 25,Essex Place,Shoreditch)- b Shoreditch aged 14 (b 1837)
4)Elizabeth DALTON(full age b1827 or earlier)occupation-Bookbinder married John Snowdon b1827 on 22.9.1848 at St.Marys,Haggerstone,Shoreditch,Mx.Elizabeth's Father stated as Charles BRICKLAYER . Elizabeth is on the 1841 family census b Middlesex 15(b 1825/6 ??) Elizabeth died on 23.4.1872 aged 44 (b1827/8) at the Friern Barnet Lunatic Asylum ; her occupation stated as wife of cabinet baker and bookbinder.
5)Emma DOLTON birth registered December quarter 1839 Shoreditch,Mx.(2-313). Emma DALTON married William Evans(Bricklayer)on 2.8.1859 at. St.John at Hackney Parish Church,Hackney,Mx.,Emma's Father stated as Charles Dalton BUILDER. Witnesses-Walter Brind and Harriet Brind. Emma is on the 1841 family census b Middlesex aged 2(?) and the 1851 family census b Shoreditch aged 11(b 1839)(Emma doesn't appear to be full age as stated on marriage certificate.)
6)Harriet DALTON. Harriet is on the 1841 family census b Middlesex aged 15/16 (?) (b 1824-1826 ???) If it is assumed that this is not the Harriet that married Walter. There are no other references to her , so far..
In the 1841, 1851 and 1871 census returns Charles Dalton's occupation is stated as a BRICKLAYER . (In 1871 Charles has another wife Isabella b. Aberdeen , 25 years his junior , living at 4,Beale Road , Bow, Middlesex.)
The marriage that took place between Walter Brind and Harriet Dalton on 18th.August 1845 at St.John at Hackney Parish Church,Hackney,Mx.stated her father as Charles Dalton BUILDER . I obtained this certificate before seeing Emma's , so had a little doubt because it was the only time Charles was mentioned as a builder , even though a bricklayer could then have been also classed as a builder . Having seen Emma's cert, though ,we now have a Charles Dalton twice described as a builder . One of the witnesses on Walters marriage certificate was Elizabeth Dalton . It is a pity we don't know if it is Walter's Mother Elizabeth(nee Tomason) or if they were so , Harriet's sister Elizabeth ,who hadn't married John Snowdon by then . (They could both only make a mark , as could Emma and Harriet .)
If we assume that the Elizabeth Dalton that witnessed Walter's wedding , was his niece and not his Mother , then all 3 marriages mentioned , didn't have a parent as a witness at all . Was there no opportunity for the parents to object to any marriage as they were not informed , or had declined to go because of the circumstances of Walters relationship to his wife , and for that matter Emma being underage ????
In the 1851 Census Walter's wife Harriet is 29 (b 1821/2) a Bookbinder , and in 1871 is 49 (b1821/2) a Bookbinder . That she and Elizabeth were both bookbinders is flimsy evidence , but the evidence linking Emma and Walter's Harriet is very strong . There would also have to have been 2 Charles Daltons with daughters Emma and Harriet , and obviously related to have a Brind connection . Before I rest my case----------
I did tell you that I had made a breakthrough on my Snowdon Ancestors , and it is relevat so bear with me . I had confirmed with plenty of proof that my Snowdon family of cabinet makers/carpenters of Shoreditch originated from North Yorkshire where the previous generations were also carpenters.On the one hand I had 100% proof(not difficult I admit)that John Snowdon b1827 Shoreditch who married Elizabeth Dalton was my 2xggfather . He had 2 children John and Harriet , and a father John , also a carpenter . I also knew conclusively that Asculph Snowdon (of course a carpenter , as were his father and grandfather) from the Stokesley area of North Yorkshire had 3 sons , all carpenters (and 3 daughters), one of the sons named John was born 1800 Shoreditch and married to Ann Duggin . They had 10 children , one of whom was called John Joseph William Snowdon , b and Baptised 1827 . The 1841 census showed the family home included the 2 Johns, Ann plus other siblings . The 1851 family census showed no sign of the younger John , but of course he turns up on his own census with Elizabeth and daughter Harriet .With other information I had it seeed clear that the link was there , but I had this one niggling doubt. Apart from the parish record of his baptism , there was no entry on any certificate of his,(he married again after Elizabeth had died), or his childrens that gave his full name of John Joseph William . I know that it isn't uncommon for middle names not be used ,so I don't know why it bothered me .
(
I knew that most Snowdons were located in the North/North East of England , and found a very important website 'The Snowdons of North Yorkshire' . Many 'Snowdon' researchers have been contributing for many years and it has extensive Snowdon information , including Asculph's ancestors back to the 15th. Century , with all the source information of proof . The collator has been very helpful , and I am in the middle of gathering all my Snowdon information , and transferring it to a programme that will enable me to send it to him , so that he can send me in return the details of my earlier ancestors .
I realised on my careful transferring of details , that although I had baptism details for Asculph and his 5 siblings (all Stokesley), his son John and his 5 siblings (all St.Leonards,Shoreditch), his son John Joseph William and his 9 siblings(all St.Leonards,Shoreditch apart from his sister Sarah-Christ Chutrch,Spitalfields) , and his son John(St.Marys,Haggerstone,Shoreditch), I didn't have them for his daughter Harriet . I realised after some time that I must have searched before without success . I didn't give up and eventually traced her . The problem was she was indexed under the surname' Smowton'. She was baptised on 29.7.1849 at St.Marys ,Haggerstone,Shoreditch(the same as brother John).Then I saw the parents - Elizabeth and John Joseph William Snowdon .Apart from his own baptism ,this was and probably will remain the only time he used his full name on any document . It conclusively proved that my 2 xggf was Asculphs grandson . Although I still haven't completed my collation of my end of the tree , my findings have been accepted and I have already received details of a further 10 Snowdon generations.
Now back to the plot. The Parish Record of Harriet Snowdon's baptism was the last on the page ,so out of habit I looked at the next page . The next two baptisms on the same day were Walter and Charles John , sons of Walter and Harriet Brind !!!!! I'm sure 'Brind researchers ' have these dates and like them, if I had looked and found Harriets baptism 2 years ago ,before my knowledge of my Brind connection , the details would have been noted and the connection not made . There then wouldn't probably be a reason to look at it again . For me, and this probably is the only time , to see John,Elizabeth and Harriet Snowdon sharing a family occassion with Walter,Harriet,Walter and Charles Brind , is very special . I know my 3xggmother is a Brind , but to find Brinds and family with my own surname together, somehow brings it closer , and to imagine them at this joint Christening brings it to life . Who knows , if no other family were present , maybe John and Harriet Snowdon could have been Walter Jr. and Charles godparents. Equally Walter and Harriet Brind could have been my Great Grandad's sister Harriet's Godparents .(Perhaps stretching my imagination too far).
The most likely birth year of Elizabeth Snowdon(nee Dalton) is 1827, so for a considerable period of her life Walter Brind was away in the 'South Seas' . Would she have been that close to him that she would arrange a joint baptism , or is it more likely two sisters would have made it happen .
The Dalton family home in the 1841 census was Goldsmith Terrace . Walter Brind's son Charles John was born in Goldsmith Row on 3.8.1846 . Did Walter and Harriet start their married life there because the Daltons were close by ? (Goldsmith Terrace and Goldsmith Row were adjacent ). It also appears that almshouses were built on the path which became Goldsmith Row , by not surprisingly The Goldsmith Company for their poor . Was this a factor considering Walters ancestors connection with the Livery Company ?
I'm going to leave it there . As you know I am not making out for one minute that I have researched The Doltons/Daltons in any depth at all , and I have made a few speculative comments . However there is enough factual evidence I believe, to show a high percentage of probability that Walter did marry his niece . Apologies for the length of these' few notes ',I hope it is not too confusing , and I should be interested on your views ,
Kind regards , Brian .
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